-
Website
http://venturebeat.com/ -
Original page
http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/07/21/iphone-prototype-goes-missing-chinese-worker-investigated-commits-suicide/ -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
Goon turns to his accomplices "Mr. Jobs says take out the trash"
Jobs says "We need to hire the A-Team"
I pitty the fool who stole the iPhone!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jul/26/chi...
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/1697.html
"Newspapers are filled with stories of bright and wealthy college students - almost all of them single children because of the state's one-child policy - who kill themselves because they fear that they cannot fulfill their families' aspirations."
I don't know what Foxconn did and if they did something that was grossly inappropriate to exacerbate the situation. I sincerely hope not. But i do know that if the young man did commit suicide, it is a choice that very sadly many youth in China make, not just those who work for companies contracting with Apple.
I didn't know as much about Taiwan, so your comments were extremely interesting. It's reputation of being 'free' has always been mythologized, and it's now so overshadowed by mainland China. We should be more aware here (to be generous) and realize that despite our problems, we're still much better off than most nations. Yet we have a profound lack of history here, even our own. Within my lifetime our government was a brutal apartheid state. State sanctioned lynching of blacks with impunity was very common up to the early 1960's. And racism is sadly still a very bad problem. We just had an incident in Cambridge, MA which is where I spent many years working and is close to where I live, It made national news and even prompted a sharp comment from our president. The details are just coming It sure seems fishy to me - this type of racism still exists if even in the unconscious mind. I wish people would be informed and THINK more, then perhaps they would be aware of our potential to act in irrational ways.
It seems like it takes a long time to build a nation with a functioning society has some amount of freedom and where conditions are good for a majority of people. But it takes a lot less time to lose it and it pains me to have witnessed how we so freely gave so many of our civil rights away here, particularly during the previous administration, so we'd feel safe. (E.g. Patriot act one sailed through the U.S. Senate 98-1-1. Laws will sunset and/or be repealed and leadership of government agencies can change, but when you bloat up law enforcement on all levels do things like consolidate power by putting 17 pre-existing federal agencies underneath that abomination known as "Dept. of Homeland Security", it is very difficult to dismantle, which should be obvious.
Ok, I'll lighten up a bit. You mentioned your "Chinese teacher" - does that imply you're learning the language? Sounds difficult. A manager I worked for in the 90's just moved to ShangHai where he works for Cisco. He's having trouble getting motivated, or more likely is too busy to learn Mandarin. He's subtle, but tells me the Chinese government is still very brutal. He and someone is often works for spent a lot of time in Beijing in 2006. It seems that China must be a mecca of Hardware/Software server solutions for video over IP (i.e. - the internet) because that's what they specialize in. I got to work with several engineers from China, but the ones that were able to come here to work in the then booming software industry were from places like that are obviously from the elite educated classes. I sure got a lot of interesting information about places like that, and second hand knowledge is quite compelling, I think you'd agree as you referenced some.
One woman I worked with lived in Beijing during Mao's "Cultural Revolution" (so it was probably still called Peking then) Both of her parents were professors in Electrical Engineering at the University of Beijing. I commented that it must of been a scary time, since that's when they were killing educated people. She said she was too young to remember anything, except that they had to move every few months. They were lucky.
I quite enjoyed some of the irreverent replies, but since you raised the level of discourse on this site, and although the article mentions a serious subject, it's anti-Apple agenda is just sad, and the person who wrote it didn't reply, probably because it's so indefensible, I don't mind changing the subject a bit.
I don't read blogs much, so I'm treating it like a forum and perhaps you or someone will respond. I think enough people caught on to the ignorant or exploitive implication that Apple is in any way responsible.
Since you recommended some serious films, I'll give you some favorites - I still like books and Luong Ung's "First they Killed my Father" is outstanding. It's about 70's Cambodia, and she tells it in the voice of a five year old child (she was five in 1975 when the Khmer Rouge over threw the government and Pol Pot came into power. It really gives you an idea of what it was like for so many people, which is lacking in formal historical writing. She was lucky enough to get out to Viet Nam and ended up in Vermont.
Katherine Graham's (former publisher of the Washington Post) Personal History (1995) is another great book - the historical highlights are the Publishing of the Pentagon Papers which wound up the Nixon administration for some reason, the Post's critical role in keeping the Watergate story alive for long enough for people to take seriously. I just watched "All the President's Men" again which is another favorite. It's sad that most American's may know who Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein are and maybe Ben Bradlee, but few know who Phil and Katherine Graham were and what they did. And for some reason people don't seem to realize that in cases like this, it's the publisher and majority owner who has everything to lose. There's one reference to Katherine Graham in "All the President's Men" and it's identical in the book and in Katherine Graham's book. (I guess it's those journalistic types and there insistence of accuracy) It's when Bernstein calls John Mitchell to give him a chance to comment on a story they were about to publish accusing Mitchell of some serious crimes. Mitchell was former Attorney General and former heal of C.R.E.E.P. (Committee to Re-elect the President) I miss the days of great acronyms!
Mitchell says - "You tell your boss - tell Katie Graham that's she's going to get her tit caught in the big wringer if you publish that". Needless to say, it's a scary thought to be threatened by someone like that. And they did try to destroy the Post Corporation and harmed it a lot. I mention the Watergate affair because it's an example of just you fragile our "democracy" is and how many people it took to get a President to resign. We are so unaware now, government does things with impunity and not many people notice, particular the previous administration. The other highlight is the Pressman's strike which was something I hadn't known about. A lot of it is a bit slow, especially in the beginning, but it really illustrates how the Washington Press mingles with the Federal Government, which is something else a lot of people don't realize here. It's also about her husband Phil Graham (not the former Senator). The Post was bought at auctioned by her father, but Phil Graham was publisher from 1946-1963. He was an extremely brilliant and charismatic person, but suffered from severe symtoms of manic depression before even lithium was approved in the USA and tragically took his own life in 1963. Ok, I'll end with the subject of apartheid, which sadly many Americans don't know that's what our government was until the early 60's. The film is about apartheid in South Africa. It's a documentary and for the purists, it can be called weak on history and timeline, but that's fair perhaps. But it's a low budget film and one of it's central themes is the role of song in protest movements. My background is music and I try to be serious when I can, so this really appeals to me. It's called "Amandla: A Revolution in Four Part Harmony". It's a heavy topic, of course, but the role of song in that and other protests is something that is underestimated. It communicated so much to people who would otherwise not be politically aware, among other things. I really love that style of music and the soundtrack contains some amazing and profound music. It makes a awful subject more positive and the whole film is quite inspirational. (Read the user comments on Amazon.com for examples of how it affects people) If you're not familiar with that style of music, it's quite upbeat and joyous. You may have heard Paul Simon's recording with a South African band. Also, Dave Matthews (who I think is quite good) is from South Africa and you can hear the influence in some of his music quite distinctly. Since 'no one' likes jazz here, it's less likely you've heard of these people, but you may have. The film has some great music by jSouth African Jazz Musician's Abdul Ibrahim and Hugh Masekala. Hugh Masekala also wrote that great song "Free Nelson Mandela", which is a pop / vocal tune that was played a lot here after Mandela was finally freed and toured the USA. There is a great version of it by "The Special A.K.A." - and what's not to like about that.
If you think there is a reason a product gets 80% market share or if you want to tweak off this irresponsible Blogger, get it on the iTunes store. If disagree and think you'd be supporting murder, I'm sure it's available at many other places.
Hope someone found that interesting. It sure beats ignorant blog writing.
Best Regards.
P.S. - If you have any influential connections in China, could you tell them they have no reason to worry and to keep buying our treasury bonds no matter how high our debt gets. And that they should show a bit more gratitude to us for the huge budget and trade surpluses they rung up by keeping us going so we could buy their exports. If they don't who will. Even if we get health care costs down before the Medicare and Medicaid become insolvent, we're still headed for trouble. It doesn't take an economist to know those numbers are going to cause us much deeper economic pain within 10-15.
So, pass on the message - we're good for the loans. Just keep buying our dollars - we won't default. Promise. Ok? thanks.
lol.. Some things are to real and bothersome, you have to laugh.
What is so irresponsible about this type of writing is this: This article is obviously very anti-Apple, and I'm not against people writing opinion. I would suggest that anyone reading this be a bit skeptical. What really bothers me is that you're obvious suggestion that Apple is in some way responsible for all the events you list. And the fact that you're using a suicide to promote your opinion and blog is completely unnecessary, tasteless and callous. You could have criticized Apple without exploiting someone's tragedy, which was very unnecessary. These events are more likely included as sensationalism to attract attention to your own opinion and blog. To digress, since I don't read blogs that often because I see things like this, please tell me this. Is the author is profiting from this blog. I'm asking because I'm fairly ignorant concerning that subject. Nonethess, I think it's a very fair question to ask the author of this article to disclose any profit motive he may have. I think this is valid because you can't claim this as being all 'opinion' and hide behind that because you've clearly crossed the line into journalism and news.
Here's some of what I object to and perhaps anyone reading this will notice when they read this article more carefully. You are really slamming Apple and are basing some serious claims on unknown sources with vague descriptions like "what tech-industry friends in China tell me", "The conclusion from the handful of people I’ve spoken with in China about the matter all seems to run along the same lines". Please don't take this personally. I freely admit to not being a good writer of prose, so I can come across less tactfully that I'd like to be. Perhaps someone else reading this can soften it. I'm admitting my shortcomings. Your answers to my questions (or lack of answers) will tell me and other readers a lot. Just because I'm inarticulate doesn't mean what I say lacks merit.
The sources on Apple I named above are have NO MERIT, they could be fictional and they are an example of how language is used to deceptive. I would urge anyone reading this to consider that they may have missed this by reading too fast. And to consider whether the value of a bloggers opinion of Apple which is backed up by sources like "tech-industry friends in China" and "the handful of people I've spoken with in China". This is irresponsible writing.
Q. These sources are worthless. If you care to differ, please explain why they're not.
Did anyone notice that the writer implies that a handful of people he spoke with in China who all agree to make this serious claim "People likee Sun are pretty helpless when things go wrong in Apple's supply chain". Notice that the author is implying that Apple is somehow responsible for a suicide. And that he names a nonsense source and uses deceptive language to make it sound credible. I find this very low. Q. - Why don't you talk about what Foxconn aledgely did and use factual information more. Dragging Apple into it is unfair and/or ignorant.
Could the author please explain why he can't substantiate these claims with better sources and information than is listed here? Is it because there are none? If so, why is that? In any case, please explain why someone reading this should believe what you say about Apple, when you use nonsense sources for credibility.
Again, you're using someone else tragedy for your own cause. I consider this truly cynical. And worse, the author is states that Apple's Secretive ways send extreme pressure "all the way down the international supply chain". Please tell me what these "Secretive ways" are exactly. Anyone who has worked in the computer industry will tell you that non-disclosure is the norm and anyone with any experience understands many reasons why discretion is so important. I wish I could let you verify who I am, but I'd be foolish to be careless with my privacy. I'll tell you what I've done at the bottom and it's sad that I can't tell you who I am. I am an unknown and this isn't a reason to not remain unknown. You'll have to base your opinions on my words. I've been in the software industry for 20 years and it's understandable that a writer who co-founded one failed startup would not understand the many reasons why discretion (or what you call "Secretive ways") is so important.
I'd explain but it would take too much text. Anyone who's ever worked at a technology company or corporation will tell you that you can't get past the front desk without signing a non-discretion form (which legally binds you to "Secretive ways) And it is not uncommon to have to sign a non-disclosure form to interview for a job in this industry.
Secrecy (discretion) is practiced all over the industry. If the author would like to tell me that Apple is different in any important way from anyone else, please do, but explain HOW, and what is wrong with what they do.
Non-discretion between partners is often more critical.
You did say it in the article - it's a competitive industry. Leaking an unreleased product is obviously something companies can't let happen. What's so evil and unique about that? If Foxconn is an American based company, this leak almost certainly constitutes an illegal breach of a contract they have with Apple. I don't know enough about how other nations handle contracts with american based corporations so I qualified it. Perhaps the author could comment. I'm interested in substance.
The implications and innuendo are so blatant and numerous I can't go through them all. In short, the author is taking non-disclosure which is very necessary and the norm all over the high tech industry, implying that it is somehow evil and that Apple is unique. He's also implying that Apple is in some way responsible for what a third party partner may have done because of this. Even if what you assert that Foxconn did to this employee is true, and much of it seems to be, you're implication that Apple shares some of the responsibility only because it practices non-disclosure like anyone else and MUST guard against a leak of an unreleased product like any other high tech company or corporations do is irresponsible. It also shows how ignorant you are concerning the industry. Either that or you're just being purely disingenuous and using Apple because they are so well known and the iPhone is so ubiquitous it will get readers attention. That's exploitive.
Again, I'd like some answers and comments. if what you are implying about Apple has any merit, please explain. I'm interested in substance. You don't even mention the concept of non-disclosure or legally binding contracts - you only mention "Secretive ways" and the "pressure" they cause. Question: Why do you use vague but inflammatory language like this rather than use tangible concepts like non-disclosure and legally binding contracts? Why should I see what you've written as being much better than tabloid journalism?
Ok, I'm done. Again, I'm smart enough not to reveal my identity. If it matters, I've worked in the software industry for 20 years, mostly as an engineer and architect. Some places I've worked included Lotus, Lotus, IBM/Lotus, Rational software (pre-IBM), AOL and VideoServer doing H.323 multi-point videoconference well before it's time in the late nineties.
Apple is a major force in the industry and has always created extremely high quality products. The author obviously is unfairly bashing them, either for some reason we'll never know, or possible is just using them to write a sensationalist (tabloid qaulity) article to promote himself. Someone who only co-founded one failed startup irresponsible a company who has consistently created great technology for no good reason is quite interesting.
Please don't take this too personally. I'm not a good writer as I'm sure you noticed. You are a writer, but what you write is bogus and irresponsible. I'd like you to answer my questions and please comment. That will tell me a lot. I'm interested in substance. If you provide some, I'll listen.
Thank you.
- I think your insanely long comment failed to address the points I made in the article about the very real pressure that Apple puts on its supply chain, and how that pressure is passed on to its partners' employees. You failed to note the connections between 1) the death being a fact, 2) that Foxconn has admitted problems on its end, and 3) that Apple is looking into this further.
- You didn't really recognize how I said that Apple makes great products (they're the only ones I use, for what it's worth -- I'm writing this reply on my iPhone). It is ludicrous for you to claim that I'm anti-Apple simply because I explain how Apple is connected to Foxconn and this incident.
- I find your personal attacks way off-base. If you think making fun of me for a failed startup is clever, then I'm not sure how familiar you are with the process of innovation. Failure is part of the game and I'm obviously not ashamed of it.
- In terms of my journalistic integrity, go read my other articles then try telling me I'm sensationalistic or lack credibility. I know a range of Chinese and expat entrepreneurs and investors based in China, who actually do know what's going on the ground right now. The way journalism works is that it is normal to publish anonymous sources. I have cited anonymous sources hundreds of times in various articles, regarding factual information that they could otherwise not reveal.
It is funny that you claim to not read blogs yet you're anonymously trolling this article like a pro. Try thinking more objectively if you want to have a serious discussion with me. I found your comment extremely insulting.
As for substantiating claims, if you haven't noticed we are on the internet, the largest un-moderated information medium in the world. People can write what they want!
No corporate electronics consumer is whiter than white, due to the fact that they operate mainly in Asia and for that reason, activities and going's on within the supply chains are unacceptable.
So Joseph Noones, jog on will ye!
"Haha! Obviously your a serious Apple fan boy"
What an inappropriate comment..
"if you haven't noticed we are on the internet, the largest un-moderated information medium in the world. People can write what they want!"
No, not in China.. http://www.intellasia.net/news/articles/governa...
Ever heard of ISP's violently cracking common encryption ? That's here in the UK.
'I find your personal attacks way off-base. If you think making fun of me for a failed startup is clever, then I'm not sure how familiar you are with the process of innovation. Failure is part of the game and I'm obviously not ashamed of it.'
Joseph was a little over the top but he did say not to take it personally. I dislike Apple along with the other big companies that deliberately manufacture in China knowing about the poor treatment of labourers they are the very funders of. Isn't it surprising he got worked up over this kind of thing? Maybe you could let it slide? :)
'No corporate electronics consumer is whiter than white, due to the fact that they operate mainly in Asia and for that reason, activities and going's on within the supply chains are unacceptable.'
Yes, but that doesn't exactly invalidate what Joseph has been saying.
Not to take the moral highground, but I really do wish some people (not you in particular, Eric) would care more about oppressed people like the poor victim, and less about having a comfortable life. I want this for the world really, but I like to think Journalists are the peoples' friends for this. The newspaper mentioned was brave to publish that kind of thing in the first place. I had to say this, Eric, because of the nature of your replies..
'It is funny that you claim to not read blogs yet you're anonymously trolling this article like a pro'
Why can't this be a real discussion? And it's not surprising he's anon given what he's revealed.. I'd like it if you could be more professional :)
Can I just echo the "don't take this personally" :)
Thanks for reading.
"We are saddened by the tragic loss of this young employee, and we are awaiting results of the investigations into his death," Apple spokeswoman Kristin Huguet told CNET on Tuesday. "We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10291701-37.html
we can never know.
quite obviously, the thought of what his superiors would do to him was enough for him to jump out of a 12 storey window
Fourth gen!!! They just shipped the 3rd gen. Why would Foxconn be prototyping the 4 gen. already? Why would Foxconn do any prototyping at all? Why would Apple risk having the details leak out almost a year before ship date. The story is fishy, and I think Venturebeat knows it is.
It's 4th gen, meaning it will be the FOURTH iPhone, not 4G, moron.
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/article.php/...
That's completely apart from the fact that 4G in this instance means "4th generation iPhone", it has nothing to do with 4G networks which haven't even been properly defined yet. As it stands and is currently implemented WiMax is still considered a 3.5G technology.
But I suppose noobs like you are easy to market to because you'll believe any garbage you watch on TV.
Companies are always pushing the envelope and developing what's next, otherwise they get left in the dust by competitors. That PC you buy today is already obsolete, the next gen of most of the hardware in it is just out (or just around the corner), so why would phones be any different? If anything, mobile markets are much more competitive and cut-throat than even the PC market.
I know you want it to be fishy, to fit your paranoid conspiracy theories, but it's par for the course in the industry. Of course, you hop right to blaming Apple (who really don't have anything to do with it, it's Foxconn and Chinese authorities involved), but you might want to wait and see if, oh maybe he snagged it and sent it to a Chinese competitor to mass-produce a 4th gen clone BEFORE Apple could release it, and he got caught? There's always more to the story, maybe it'll come out soon.
As a former "resident inmate" at 1 Infinite Loop, I can vouch for the secrecy and the pressure. In had only gotten worse in the eight years since Apple closed up shop in manufacturing in Mexico and Sacramento.
Foxconn screws stuff up all the time; but the pressure of one of Apple's Crown Jewels (iPhone) would drive "normal" employees with a life outside of Apple to quit or burn out. Who knows what the vendors in main land China are doing o their employees.
I just wished I had been paid enough so that when my liver gives out (from all the drinking induced from the pressure of 60+ hr work weeks, and the free beer and wine flowing at beer bashes available to employees (and in some offices)) that I could afford to pay someone enough money to:
1) Bump me to the top of the list for a liver
2) hide the fact I'm getting a transplant in a Redneck state I probably wouldn't be found dead in due to its lack of Palo Alto/Menlo Park opulence...
And of course we'll never learn whether it was actually a suicide or Foxconn's "security staff" throwing a man out of a window to set an example.
Welcome to China. Welcome to obsessively protected intellectual property. What does one man's life mean when billions in profit from the U.S. market are at stake. Hope you'll think about it the next time you buy a cool electronic gizmo.
So Mr. Indian blogger, you get to shut it. Vulture off something else.
If Apple were to do anything, they should probably have a come to Jesus with Foxconn, and also send condolences to the lad's family... but they should also understand that these things happen outside of tech in the PRC, every day of the week. For all we know, the kid's work unit was also applying heat to him as well.. NOT just the host company.
Since ur wagging ur tail in the valley , here are some facts about the valley
The Indians Of Silicon Valley The hidden geniuses of the tech revolution are Indian engineers-
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_...
I do respect the Chinese and used to work with a Chinese Vendor for several years !
They are amazing in terms of innovation, but they are not sportive and can't handle competition.
Really sad to see a young guy end his life in unusual manner.
I DONT see your points about India valid at all !
what exactly did apple have to do with this? and how does this incident in any way reflect on people who use apple products?
grow up people!
This is what my iPod reads on the back.
Designed by Apple in California .Assembled in China. As you say its due the cheap labor.
Quite true, but it ends up shipping bugs that Microsoft would have caught in a public beta.
This goes to show that Apple does NOT design the iphone, but that they have engineers from Taiwan and China probably doing most of the R&D work for them.
My points were: 1/ That's been my experience, and 2/ China doesn't work the way all you westerners want it to, and 3/ outside of tech, sadly, this happens more than is reported.
Probably the most insightful comment was that by commenter Sun about 9 hours ago.
I apologize, but the copy/paster saying that Chinese cut & run in the face of competition is an insult, when we all know that it's *his* nationality that is most likely to do so.
Terribly sad that a young man's death becomes a football for snippy folk to punt back and forth.
anyway....I won't buy apple products any more
He still gets his hands dirty when he has to!
And now I thinking to switch different than Mac os,or Windows os,Linux ummm no thanks,that's is for hackers.
Andy
http://aclevertwist.com/blog
Amazing Tips for Immigrant Parents for more details.