VentureBeat - Latest Comments in LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

ssteven94 — Fri, 08 May 2009 05:21:20 -0000

no-fees tickets:

http://www.ticketdepo.com

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

ssteven94 — Fri, 08 May 2009 03:01:42 -0000

hi friends
please help me
tell some communities

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

ssteven94 — Fri, 08 May 2009 02:59:36 -0000

hank you for imformation

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Alexandra — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 09:12:54 -0000

I don't see these guys making it because there's no good way to generate revenue by not charging commission. Consider it a DOT BOMB! All in all, I have heard terrible stories from about secondary ticket market sites ripping people off. StubHub has the eBay connection and proper funding. It's still the most popular and these guys willbe history before you know it. Thumbs down.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

ColoradoJimH — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:42:56 -0000

StubHub Sold Me Invalid Tickets. Read more: http://stubhubsoldmeinvalid...

I wanted to reward a friend with tickets to a Yankee game - one of the final games of the year. I decided to purchase tickets from StubHub. I realizing the tickets had been marked-up; nevertheless, this was a special event.

Not including the tickets, I spent $4k to in hotel, air and more just to travel to and from NYC.

The "expensive" tickets: over $2k

The original owner of the tickets: A Yankee season ticket holder. Ask me for his name.

When I attempted to use the tickets, the Yankees refused me at the gate. The tickets are invalid.

I telephoned StubHub. The phone rang and rang. I telephoned back and was placed on hold for - well, I gave up. How is a fan going to resolve a serious problem at the gate, when StubHub places us on hold forever?

I complained to StubHub. I was sent the Invalid Ticket Claim Form" and was told by Deju, "this type of situation is rare..."

Deju: "this type of situation is rare"
9-28-08

A StubHub representative, Sue at 415-222-3961, telephoned me prior to receiving the form. She encouraged me to complete the form and return it ASAP; she too stated this type of situation (selling tickets to fans that are fake or invalid) is rare. She said that she would be back in touch with me; that if I wanted to phone her I could...but that her voice mail (at customer service) doesn't work.

I completed the Invalid Ticket Claim Form (odd how the form is titled; they said this was a rare situation) and attempted to fax it back to StubHub using the fax number listed on their form. The fax number doesn't work! Maybe it seems rare to StubHub, because fans are not allowed to actually submit a claim. The form was sent on 9/28/08I telephoned StubHub and informed them that the fax number didn't work. They gave me another: 800-996-7298 I faxed the form, and copies of the tickets for which I paid $2,651.95

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

A friend — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:20:27 -0000

I know the LiveStub team and a lot of whats being written here is flat out wrong. It seems that a lot of people here are either angry or ignorant of their model.

What they are simply trying to do is create a platform to connect buyers and sellers. Since they wanted/needed tickets and ticket data at the start, they signed up with TicketsNow. Instead of people here recognizing the creative thinking on this, especially the writer of this piece who didnt bother to ask/understand about the hundreds of thousands of tickets on the site, everyone has made it as if they were pulling a fast one. WRONG.

Second, fan "guarantees" are BS. Look at what happened at TicketsNow at the US Open!! Even with every gaurantee in the world, there will still be big time screw ups. These fan guarantees are nothing more than excuses to take up to **25%** of the transaction as profit! Meanwhile, sites like Craigslist function just fine as a means to find tickets (see recent NY Mag article here: http://nymag.com/news/sport... users take proper precautions, then they will be fine. I know that Livestub also utilizes IP Address capture and the requirement of a working cell phone #. Again, another creative method for Livestub to provide a level of security without ruining the ease of use on the site.

Third, there is nothing 'fishy' about when they launched etc. They registered the domain name a while back and had a sample site up in Jan/Feb. The site/business are new.

Finally - again, just to clarify: They do not sell any tickets themselves. They either allow buyers to contact sellers or allow them to buy immediately via TicketsNow. I know that once they have enough user posted tickets, they plan on removing the TicketsNow tickets from their system. I know they have had thousands of tickets posted so far, and many leads through the site. They are good group of people and I wish them well.

As for the ignorant hating on this thread....

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

merlin — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:32:03 -0000

Re the wisdom of morten lund - is this the same guy who is chronicling his company failure and personal bankruptcy? http://lundxy.com/?p=3182

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

malaguena — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 18:08:10 -0000

This thing livestub.com smells really fishy to me.
For one thing, is been around about a year already,its not a new site, it sounds like they tried to convince you they were launching something new

http://pronet.nielsen.com/s...

beware!

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:05:37 -0000

pitbull?!

Look. I love VentureBeat and read it frequently; I'm concerned [WOOF] to see a misleading post about a topic I know. I didn't mean to imply that livestub is intending to scam anyone, nor that the blogger is [GRRR] either.

Let's take the most charitable explanation - the programmers/investors thought they had a great idea, but didn't have time to talk to anyone experienced in this market. Then, the author heard the name of a smart investor and uncritically repeated the message, even calling it a 'sound model', without checking if the listings were really commission-free,
doing homework to find similar efforts, or think it through. It happens - all the time!

As to your remarks:
>Just seems like Craigslist with better eye candy - and may at most attract the same kind of low end sellers and buyers. The market leaders have guarantees, customer service, managed delivery and will-call infrastructure.

BINGO - protecting buyers, detecting counterfeits, holding sellers accountable, keep denial and no-fill rates down (well, to 10% or so) - takes real people and real $, which is why TicketsNow etc charge the service fees.

[WOOF] Tickets are notoriously easy to forge, anyone with a PDF editor can.
You don't need to 'seed' livestub with affiliate tickets or use an affiliate clone template to attract unregistered sellers. Craigslist manages without.

So what's likely to happen with our 'innovative' livestub affiliate that doesn't require users to register? From personal [WOOF] experience, I expect we'll see a mess of 'sellers' taking advantage of the uncontrolled environment - and of my fellow venturebeat readers, likely with over 50% no-fill or fraud rate. Could someone then sue the publishers or is it merely 'errors & omissions'? How will they handle the calls from the 10 fans who all showed up claiming the same seat to see the Jonas Brothers only to realize they all bought their tickets on livestub? Will they end up adding a service fee, after getting all this free publicity about no-fee sales?

Bark Back!

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

More questions — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 05:12:48 -0000

Without being a pitbull like st stephen and putting aside the whole getting outed on the TicketsNow inventory episode, this just seems like Craigslist with better eye candy - and may at most attract the same kind of low end sellers and buyers. The market leaders have guarantees, customer service, managed delivery and will-call infrastructure. They have built their brands and customer trust through marketing and relationships with artists and teams. All that service costs money, which is where the commission dollars go. BTW, they keep buyers and sellers apart, not give them tools to interact. Ask eBay how that Skype thing is working out. Sellers don't want to deal with buyers or window shoppers, they just want to sell their tickets, hard to do on a site with no traffic. What's your plan there? Craigslist has all your same limitations but at least they have critical mass. Also, it is hard to imagine that capturing IP addresses is sufficient to chase off scammers what with free wi-fi everywhere these days. How does LiveStub deal with fake or delivered after the event tickets?

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

mm — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:15:16 -0000

If they had done their homework and really knew the ticket market before launching a misleading site, they would have realized there is a source out there for listing tickets where they could have "seeded" their inventory and not have any additional fees included in the price...

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:30:45 -0000

Hi Dan,

from your post:

>Unlike its counterparts, it does not require users to register

Based on this, it sounds like an open invitation for unregistered users to sell unverified tickets. If you have facts contrariwise, I'd certainly be pleased to see them.

It's easy to see what the business model is Not; what would be of interest is some rationale for what the model Is ;-)

Tickets are indeed an interesting and fast-moving space, and there are indeed other sites out there moving towards providing transparency and innovating.

I think it's possible for investors to back a company without deep understanding of a market and back naive plans with the best of intentions;

I did not mean to imply that was your or the company's intent, sorry.

For further research, though, here are some of the many sites which already claim to offer no-fees tickets:

justgreattickets.com
concerttickets.org
gottickets.com
freefeeticket.com
cheappremiumtickets.com
hallmarktickets.com

I'll leave it to you to assess the validity of each claim, but each is closer to making an honest claim in that you see $0 fee at checkout. You will also find lots of commonality in the graphical designs which seem to come from a common template.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Dan Kaplan — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:15:30 -0000

Stephen, I think you're overreacting. It's not clear that LiveStub is encouraging the sale of "unverified, usually counterfeit tickets to unsuspecting buyers." Morten Lund is not an idiot.

It is true that there is an affiliate relationship with TicketWebs, which I think LiveStub should make clear, but it's not the site's core long term business model. I added an update to the site when I found this out and I made it clear that the site's interface is misleading. But the whole operation is not a scam.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:45:01 -0000

Also another point:

you don't need to have any 'seed' affiliate listings to offer unregistered users a free way to list tickets for sale without commission, like craigslist.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:42:19 -0000

All sites have 'many many improvements we are planning on...'

There are indeed other sites which offer 'zero fees' etc., so this site as described is offering no innovation as yet, it's getting free publicity for non-unique plans and no explanation of how the traditional concerns about holding sellers accountable, preventing counterfeits, no-fills, etc that have plagued the industry. Also no explanation for how the company would survive after dropping its 'seed' affiliate listings, nor how it would 'nuke' anyone.

Gaining critical mass by misleading advertising is I suppose one way to go, but that should be the headline here.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:28:44 -0000

A fee is a fee; an affiliate is an affiliate. There is zero difference to the buyer.

THis post represents and the site implies the opposite, which is fraudulent.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:27:28 -0000

TicketsNow only licenses its SOAP API (where they get the data) to its affiliates.
They had to sign an affiliate agreement to get the API.

Even if they somehow arranged to make a 0% commission for the site, TicketsNow still charges a service fee aka commission, and this site feeds them business, so it's an affiliate relationship any way you spin it.

Further, I examined tickets for several known TicketsNow affiliates and ticketsnow.com for the identical events on this site, and found the same prices and service fees on both listings... so whatever this site is not charging is not benefiting the buyer one iota, it is still $ going to ticketsnow.

The site introduces zero new 'competition' among ticket resellers, and does not even address the issue of preventing counterfeit sales, which is normally done by requiring registration and fees to hold sellers accountable. As is, this site is an open invitation for counterfeiters to scam the public.

Again, simple fact checking (and changing the title of this post or deleting it) is appropriate here . Sorry to be so strident in tone here but really I feel you are going to mislead lots of people and potentially foster use of yet another scalper site which encourages the sale of unverified, usually counterfeit, tickets to unsuspecting buyers by unregistered sellers.

You don't want to be aiding and abetting that, do you?

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Levi — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:13:37 -0000

Dan & Co.,

I believe this was a complete mis-understanding and we apologize for that. We do in fact have tickets from TicketsNow on our site which is obvious when you come to the check out page. The reason, as Dan mentioned in his update and other commenters have noted, is to help seed the site and database so there would be inventory on the site when we launched.

Having ticket inventory on a site at launch is very difficult in this industry and it has plagued a number of our competitors. Both buyers and sellers need to see tickets before they engage. We felt it was in our best interest to import ticket inevntory from a third party to make sure that the site wasnt empty and that we could launch some of the features that require loads of data.

This is no way affects our ability to offer a commission free environment on all the other tickets on the site posted by individuals. The more tickets we have from individuals and brokers, the sooner we can remove the TicketsNow inventory. It is simply a matter of having the inventory to satisfy our visitors and power our features.

We are not a "ticket search engine" nor "another affiliate site". We are what the article says we are: a new, free platform for buyers and sellers. We have many, many improvements we plan on implementing that will make us a first choice for individual buyers and sellers. We hope this clears this up a bit and we would appreciate an open mind when you reviewing all of the above.

Thanks,
Levi Bergovoy

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Martin — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:03:45 -0000

as i said earlier, livestub is not charging a fee, ticketsnow is. how is that fraudulent?

indeed their inventory comes from different sources. fair enough. i suspect, if the site grows as it seems market demand dictates in the coming months there will be no problem with inventory and the ticketsnow stock will be ignored because it is more expensive.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Dan Kaplan — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:01:42 -0000

It is more complicated. It's not an affiliate site, but it did seed its database with TicketsNow's listings. LiveStub hopes to build up its own ticket database, which will charge no commission.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:24:23 -0000

It's not 'legit'. It's fraudulent to claim you are selling something for no commission when you are not.

Anyone can make claims about what they INTEND to do someday, if they could only get the liquidity (critical mass) of something like ticketsnow et al. However, attracting that inventory by making fraudulent claims, amplified by free false advertising from blogs, is a questionable way to go.

For one thing, a business model that claims to aim to 'blow away' its main/sole source of revenue should be called out for what it is. What ever happened to critical thinking, common sense, and dare I say it - journalism?

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:17:30 -0000

this is an awful template, it's mostly the same as most other scalper sites

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Bronsy — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:09:06 -0000

It's legit and will still be a far better option for regular people who want to buy and sell - there's no commission on that. Ticketsnow is not ideal but they need inventory from somewhere to get the ball rolling. The features that they have that set the site apart (like price estimator) depend on inventory. It's a good looking site - it will be interesting to see what happens when they build an inventory of their own. Who knows st. stephen, maybe they'll have some dead shows on there for ya.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

Sniff Test FAIL — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:42:20 -0000

The labeling is not even the most misleading part. Positioning the company as like StubHub and saying they don't charge fees but then sending users to TicketsNow, an actual StubHub competitor, which charges fees comparable to the StubHub's, is deceitful. They could have just as easily listed StubHub's tickets and favorably compared themselves to TicketsNow instead. Smoke and mirrors. Customers pay the commission to the real guys with tickets either way.

Re: LiveStub hopes to nuke StubHub, others, with commission-free scalping

gruvr music map — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:41:47 -0000

THis looks like a total scam, you guys should check your facts before giving free publicity to frauds. THey are obviously a ticketsnow affiliate, likely making 7% commission but even if they somehow set their commission at zero, the above commentor is correct, ticketsnow still takes a very healthy chunk.

Without fees, y0u have little way to ensure accountability of the sellers and you end up with true scalping (i.e. selling fake tickets or no-fills) like you have on stubhub, ebay, and craigslist.

I think the authors of this blog had better check the facts and if this is indeed an affiliate site, pull the post and put up a retraction, quickly.