DISQUS

VentureBeat: Microsoft fires game test contractor who talked to VentureBeat

  • Gonzo · 1 year ago
    I hate big companies stepping on the little folks; but I have to side with MS on this one. They know that they sold defective products, they admitted it, and they set aside a billion dollars to cover the warranty extension for 3 years. They already had a hit on the reputation department and RROD is now an industry term for a failure of a product.

    Robert I'm sorry you lost your job, but those papers that you signed when they hired you meant you cannot "spill the beans" while you are being paid by them. That's just stupid and you arrogance with comments like "Bring it on!" just exacerbates the fickle you're in. It says more about you with your future employees, you cannot be trusted. If you cannot live with the fact that they are "tricking" the consumers, then quit, or do what a genuinely concerned person will do, do it anonymously. In the end you just wanted your 15 mins. of fame for "battling" the big guys and appearing like a hero for the benefit of your own ego.
  • Jay · 10 months ago
    Wow! And Richard Nixon should've served his second term right? After all, it was a whistle blower that brought his treason to the public.
  • Rich · 1 year ago
    There is absolutely nothing new in his comments. I saw these 2 years ago by non-Microsoft sources.

    The problems are that an employee has gone on record acknowleging what the blogs have been saying for 2 years. The other problem is that people have brought class-action lawsuits against Microsoft, and this adds potential liability for Microsoft. If I'm Microsoft, I don't want this guys statement to cost me $50 million from one of these pending class-action lawsuits... especially for a temp employee... this isn't Bill Gates making the statement, which you have to own up to.

    I feel sorry for the guy. It's really pathetic that you have to fire somebody for not only telling the truth, but a truth that's been reported on 10 previous occassions over the last 2 years, because of libility reasons. Perhaps MS can re-hire him now that they've sent a message that he doesn't speak for them, by firing him. Stupid BS.
  • Carlsberg Polar Bear · 1 year ago
    I've reached some conclusions from reading this article and the posts relating to it.

    1. Dean Takahashi is doing a great service and good journalism in reporting this, and not letting the subject of Microsoft and the XBOX 360 scandal fade away- Kudos Dean.

    2. Mr. Delaware violated a NDA with his employer, by turning to the media............i'm sure he knew this from the beginning of his talks with Dean. What i am not sure, is, if he knew or was able to comprehend from the beginning to what extent this lawsuit could reach in financial terms: He literally dug his financial grave with his bare own hands. Microsoft's army of lawyers are not the right guys to mess with, especially when at stake there is such a strong case to their credit (this case has no uncertainties and i guess that the trail will be short and brief. i do hope that the judge will show mercy on Mr. Delaware and will fine him with relatively small restitution in favor of Microsoft).

    3. None the less, i agree with Dean and other posts that Microsoft should focus on improving their products prior to releasing them to the market, and that if Microsoft has screwed up they should not cover up for their misdeeds and lie to their consumers, instead of hunting down low level ex-employees on such a subject (Mr. Delware already got his punishment by being fired, and the fact that his future as a game tester or hi-tech employee is completely destroyed and no HR manager will ever hire him in that industry again).
  • Alexjr · 1 year ago
    >2. Mr. Delaware violated a NDA with his employer, by turning to the media............i'm sure he knew this from the beginning of his talks with Dean

    If he know, why he took the risk?
    Must be carefull Mr. Delaware!
  • Zebulon Pi · 1 year ago
    If he wanted to take some type of legal stand against Microsoft, he should have contacted 1) a lawyer, and then 2) some branch of law inforcement about his claims. They could then have launched a class-action lawsuit and hit them the only place they truly care: their wallet. Going to some web-based magazine to break his NDA shows he has NO concept of how anything works, and, honestly, should be held against him when it comes to giving credibility to his story. Every company he's complained about is well within their rights to smack him legally as hard as they can, and they should, to make sure that when people DO talk, they do it in a way that will actually make a difference and not just stir the fanboi pot.
  • Bob Robertson · 1 year ago
    "some branch of law inforcement[sic]"

    You really need to get away from your console more often. "Law Enforcement" will not help anyone avoid breaking the law. Their job is _enforcement_, not "compliance".

    The one and only recourse is to contact a lawyer, and hope that their advice doesn't get you into more trouble than otherwise, since ignorance of the law is no defense.

    In this age of entire libraries of laws, I believe that ignorance of the law deserves to be a positive defense!

    Mr. Delaware violated his employment contract. That's all, and that is the entirety of any recourse Microsoft has against him.
  • Viper · 1 year ago
    This guy is not very smart. Not only did he make sure that he'll never set foot in Microsoft again, but any hiring manager doing their due-diligence on him would never hire him. I hope he has some alternate, non high-tech job lined up.

    Nobody wants a cowboy like that in their company.
  • MP · 1 year ago
    Not if, like Microsoft, they have something to hide.
  • Jason Venter · 1 year ago
    I'm not sure what he had to gain by supplying his input for this article. People already know about the RROD issue. It has affected a significant number of us who own an Xbox 360. I just got my launch unit repaired recently for that very issue, and I treated mine with astonishing care. It's clearly a defective machine and the only thing people are really arguing now is HOW defective it is. An article like this obviously was going to put this guy's job in jeopardy, and the net effect is that he confirmed that the systems are defective. He accomplished nothing and now he'll have a hard time finding work in the industry. It's difficult to understand.
  • Thomas · 1 year ago
    Any other consumer product with this many defects and problems would have been avoided like the plague but a console owners blind loyalty is unbelievable. Eleven replacements! Its really worth a study for some psychiatric journal.
  • Coma · 1 year ago
    "Delaware bravely decided to come forward..."

    Yeah, he's a real hero.
  • Robyn Tippins · 1 year ago
    I've had three consoles so I fully understand the annoyances this console has caused. Still, by far I'd rather play on my 360 than any other machine I own (and we have the other next gen consoles). Sounds like the tester knew he'd probably get fired and took that risk knowingly, so kudos to him. However, if he broke NDA then firing was justified.
  • Harry · 1 year ago
    It's really unfortunate when large companies like Microsoft (for whom I worked for over 10 years) find it necessary to bury useful information from honest testers. That being said, yes Delaware surely had to know that he was violating his NDA and would get canned for this - I can't imagine someone being so naive (well, maybe I can). But I do wish him well against the pending legal action and wish MSFT would bugger off and spend the time ACTUALLY FIXING THE PROBLEMS rather than pursuing piecemeal litigation (although they've got an army of lawyers there - they have to do something).

    As for me, I bought my Xbox 360 in November 2005 within the first few days of launch and I've *never* had a single problem with it (knock on wood). However, I know tons of people who have gone through 2 or more consoles to find stability.
  • Sean · 1 year ago
    Exactly. NDA's are meant (I would, nay will, conject) to protect corporate entities from the possible hurt an employee/former employee could exact on a company WITHOUT JUSTIFICATION. If MS's consoles were within the normal range of failure and/or had been mistreated in order to reach the number of reports appearing on websites then it would be abuse and MS should by all means pursue legal action. However, it is fairly evident that MS is in the middle of a coverup. By ignoring the cries of the testers, QA specialists, engineers, etc. they have placed themselves in an awkward position. But this could be rectified. MS's current stance on the RRoD is a decent example. Yet by ignoring the problem and MAKING CONSUMERS PAY THE COST they have lost their rights to an NDA since it is based in a sort of good faith standing. In short, if MS follows through with legal action, they will become the NDA equivalent of a patent troll (constantly and exactly abusing the system). Email me at jamesb2147@gmail.com if you disagree :)
  • Mike · 1 year ago
    "He left to join a start-up, Whrrl, and then returned to the game testing job at Excell..."

    That should be very telling. Whrrl is a young/hot company and I can't imagine who would leave to be a contract tester (again).
  • Former Pelago Emp · 1 year ago
    As a former Whrrl/Pelago employee who left I can say that Pelago was not all sunshine and lollipops.
  • Johan · 1 year ago
    This is a ridiculous article.

    Of course it was Delaware's rightful decision to come out and talk with VB, but it's also a rightful decision of Microsoft's to fire him. I am SURE there are tons of NDAs that forbade him to talk in such specificity with VB, but he chose to do so.

    Now that Delaware has done so, he has to sleep in the bed he made, which in this case means Microsoft firing and coming after him. You don't get to do whatever you want and not expect consequences.
  • dbushik · 1 year ago
    Okay...so where exactly in this article is anyone complaining about now having to sleep in the bed they made for themselves? He talked knowing the potential consequences and was fired. Don't hear anyone complaining it was wrongful in a legal sense or complaining that consesquences were not expected, so what exactly are you talking about?

    Once you get past that, what is so "ridiculous" about covering the aftermath and having an opinion that what MS is doing, even well within their rights, is counterproductive? Certainly this writer is entitled to have one and it does pertain to the overall story here of MS and the 360 failures.

    Your comment is ridiculous.
  • Jay Cuthrell · 1 year ago
    @Johan -- Yeah, imagine if companies made things like gas tanks, wiring harnesses, energy cells, etc. where actuarial tables dictated a sense of right and wrong when confronting personal damanges vs. profits. That would be... oh, harsh reality.

    We should all just roll over and lap it up and ask for more. Those darn whistle blowers!

    NB: Trolls are an excellent addition to the VentureBeat comment community. May your page views increase!
  • biteme · 1 year ago
    And you are an asshat.
  • biteme · 1 year ago
    Hmmm.... that doesn't look quite right. The above comment was for Johan, not dbushik.
  • Rabbitc · 1 year ago
    and you are ignorant - Johan is right on the money. If he's signed an NDA - he's up sh*t creek - no doubt about it.
  • PLAYER 1 · 1 year ago
    Sorry, you are wrong, Johan...
    This is just the last drop in the glass, that is the point.
    MS is repeting mistakes again and again, minwhile, thousands of people(and pockets) suffers and pay for that.

    I wish SONY hire Robert Delaware.
  • PLAYER 1 · 1 year ago
    Can i translate this to spanish ???
  • lolo · 1 year ago
    " You don't get to do whatever you want and not expect consequences"

    not unless you are Microsoft. THEN, you can buy the law, media, people, juries, and do whatever the hell you want and face no consequences.
  • Lee · 1 year ago
    Problem is Dean it sounds like some of this stuff he may very well have made up, and if he did MS has every right in the world to fire him. Whether or not he has been completely forthcoming could come out in court. This is what you get yourself into when you take a source like this and not vet it out.
  • Jay Cuthrell · 1 year ago
    The problem with that assumption of "made up" is that it is not typically associated with "bring it on” types. Phrasing of this style is not lost on corporate legal and risk practices. Consumer rights martyrdom is a shorter path when the courts become involved.
  • calidan · 1 year ago
    I'm on 5th 360,all of my friends have had their 360's break at least once but usually more than that.Microsoft extended there wasn't a problem and then proceeded to extend the warranty to 1 year and then to three years.Tons of people have come out reporting to have gone through more than 10 machines.Who are you trust?I seriously doubt he was lying.
  • AK · 1 year ago
    People must know about that.
  • VB paid him · 1 year ago
    i find it odd that this info surfaced a week after the price drop.
  • Krystalo · 1 year ago
    The man is a liar, and my opinion of VB has plumetted thanks to this bullshit "journalism."
  • MP · 1 year ago
    Which bits are lies, then? And how would you know, actually KNOW, they're lies, unless you work for Microsoft yourself...?
  • SomeoneInformed · 1 year ago
    This guy is no hero. He's a moron...

    Interviewing a game tester (even if he has worked on Microsoft product) is a lot like interviewing a sales clerk at GameStop (who sells Microsoft product). Neither of them are especially knowledgeable sources and neither or them know a single thing about why the Red Ring occurs. It's virtually pointless.

    Game testers are the absolute lowest level people in game development and they have very little, if any access to information about actual hardware construction or why defects are occurring. Even when they find a bug and it gets fixed, they get no information about what the defect actually was (they only report the symptom and any obvious trigger), or how it was fixed. Meaning... they know nothing. Their opinion is 100% speculative based on isolated pieces of information (their bugs) which have no context.

    In addition, testing Microsoft games doesn't mean you test Microsoft hardware, or that the two are even related.

    This particular game tester seems to have spent most of his time working for a company other than Microsoft while testing their games (a QA outsource job), which means he sat there playing Halo (example) looking for bugs and that's it. He is a thousand steps removed from anything remotely connected to the 360, its manufacturing, or such complicated engineering problems.

    My point?

    This is a guy off the street. Literally hired off the street as all game testers are because it takes no genuine aptitude. He works for a temp agency. He doesn't care if he gets fired because he has no real gaming career to speak of. He's replaceable and interchangeable so there's no bravery here in risking an entry level job. He likely earns somewhere around $13 an hour. In other words, a gig stacking books at Borders is a fine alternative to Microsoft.

    This story and this person and his plight is plainly ridiculous...

    It's like turning to the guy in the mailroom to explain where Enron went wrong. Do you think he even has a clue?

    This kind of vested and wild faith in a simple game tester can only come from people who really don't know how the gaming industry works. Or journalists looking to promote a book that doesn't seem that investigative or that clever. And I don't buy his love for the community one bit. Frankly, he stands to make more money by being involved in this so-called controversy, than he'd ever make testing games for a living. If he's even that smart.

    The heroism is pretty hollow.

    Game testers always like to be vocal. They always like to champion the cause of quality and consumer loyalty. They're the first to complain when they think something is broken and the last to accept an explanation (when they get them). And why is that? Because they're the most unprofessional "professionals" in the business. They're as buttoned up as the tween taking your order at the drive through, and just as apathetic. They're regularly sophomoric and immature. They don't actually make games - they just play them and hunt for bugs. So they know nothing about how games are actually made, they know nothing about the business involved, and they certainly don't appreciate the realities of the marketplace or the many entities involved. They just sit there like a bunch of ignorant bastards, shaking their fist at any game that isn't perfect (according to the glossy definition in their tiny little minds), not realizing that no game is perfect, no piece of hardware is perfect, and no bug is exactly what they think it is. They're not programmers - they're stoners that would be sitting on their couch all night playing games anyway (paid to do so or not). They deal entirely in the superficial.

    How that leads to them being a credible source or a reliable "whistle blower", I don't know.

    I don't see any substantiation to his claims, only that he "believes" many of his own ideas and opinions to be true. Again... how would he know? It's like expecting the valet that parks your car to know how the food is prepared within the kitchen. Their so disconnected from that process that an honest bloke would look at you sideways for even asking.

    As for his legal troubles...

    His statements are pure conjecture. He may have found problems. He may have found problems he could reproduce reliably. But he doesn't know why they're happening. It's such a limited perspective that it can barely be called an informed one. So why go public and make these kinds of suggestions and statements that may actually damage Microsoft? He will never know if his dash board bug really caused those defects or how. But he'll go public and suggest bold-faced that everyone saw it coming and everyone must have known it was an issue!

    You can't do that. He deserves to get sued. You signed a document saying you wouldn't do that. You lack integrity.

    If he were more informed or in a position of more knowledge, there might be reason to care what he thinks. But he clearly knows nothing, so what he's doing is simply irresponsible and stupid.

    He'll never work in gaming again. Violating an NDA is death.

    I'll never read VentureBeat again. Reporting unsubstantiated conjecture is not worth my time.
  • Reflex · 1 year ago
    I have to strongly back this post. I have been a test engineer for a decade now, both for Microsoft and other corporations(both software and hardware). I have delt with the Windows kernel and the ins and outs of a IVR in the phone industry. The lack of real research, especially by Dean Takahashi who's articles I typically respect is amazing. This is akin to using a guy on the production line at GM to explain a failure in the software that runs the black box. No games tester has *any* clue what is going on under the hood of a 360(or PC or any other hardware for that matter). This guy is just one of thousands of contractors who are just a small step above 'end user' in terms of their knowledge.

    One thing that really struck a chord with me was the point made about how they write a bug and assume they understand the 'why'. That is epidemic among testers, especially the less experienced ones. The fact is that code can have literally millions of paths and combinations of paths for execution, regardless of whatever logic a tester has worked out in their head, nine times out of ten they WILL be wrong. Not just off a bit, but flat out wrong in thier speculation about how or why something occurs. Thier job(at the lower levels) is simply to find a scenerio where it is reproducable, then let the developers figure out the why's of the situation.

    At the least I'd have liked to know this guy's level. At MS(and most companies) they are assigned levels, there are Software Test Engineer levels from one to five, and game testers are typically STE1's, which are the least experienced. There is no way someone who isn't at least a STE3 should ever be given credibility on something like this, and any STE who hasn't done development has no credibility regardless of thier level(I've worked with plenty of STE3's who can't get to the root of a problem).

    As for the issue specifically, I find it dissapointing that reputable reporters like Dean are not stating the real reason for the failures. The real reason has been covered very lightly, instead they'd rather pretend there is some grand conspiracy and every few months come out with a rehash of the same old crap. The truth is much simpler and far less conspirital: The 360 was one of the first consumer devices that complied with the new European lead-free requirements, including lead-free solder. This solder as it turned out had issues with high heat, and as a result fails easily allowing chips to desolder themselves. This was really not forseeable as it was cutting edge at the time of the 360's release. MS has since then been trying to correct for the issue, including changing chip packaging to better spread heat, die shrinks, and better cooling, but had they used the older lead-based solder this would likely have never been an issue. Of course then they could not have sold the 360 in Europe or would have had to have a seperate assembly line.

    Yes, it is that simple. Its a learning curve the company clearly did not anticipate. MS is not a consumer hardware company and their lack of experience with something so cutting edge definatly bit them in the ass. Give a point to Sony in this regard. But end the conspiracy chatter, its ridiculous, unfounded and unnecessary. We got our extended warranties which is better than Sony ever gave anyone for the mass failures of their first three years of the PS2(yes, a gratuitous swipe).
  • digger · 1 year ago
    Dittos.

    I have worked at VMC. It is pure, frozen concentrate stupid over there. This guy was taken advantage of. If you're at VMC working as a game tester, there's nothing to differentiate you from gibbons at the zoo flicking their own poo.

    These guys have no marketable skills and are surly, emotional, combative wrecks. I don't need to know this guy to know who he is. VMC is an american sweatshop and they hire the stupidest, cheapest talent they can find. This guy was taken advantage of by the author.
  • Rabbitc · 1 year ago
    'Bring it on' he says...Hate to break it to ya, Pal - but if you've signed an NDA (which you probably did when they hired you) - you're screwed big-time.
  • Mark Jacobs · 1 year ago
    You don't fucking bite that hand that feeds you.

    If you can't take it and have some moral dilemma then fucking leave, then spill the beans.

    He deserved every bit of it.

    Anyone here that worked on this kind of field or hired by software companies know that there are a lot of restrictions on your contract. You just don't go out tell the big guys to "Bring it on!" and still expect to go back to the same field. Oh well he can be a blogger.
  • Andrer · 1 year ago
    Type your comment here.@ Reflex:
    Your analysis of lead free solder in consumer products is spot on, but only covers some of the problems involved. One of the worst issues is the growth of microscopic "fingers" of metal causing micro electronics to develop short circuits. Lead free solder is now used in almost ALL consumer electronics and has resulted in making modern electronic devices ticking time bombs waiting to fail. Give me lead solder or give me death.
  • MP · 1 year ago
    Well said. I've tried using lead-free solder in the past, it's like trying to solder with fuse wire. Awful stuff, I ended up buying a roll of "proper" solder from CPC/Farnell after only using about a foot of lead-free and it really does make the world of difference.
    If lead-free solder is so difficult to use by hand, imagine getting the bloody stuff to work properly in an industrial wave solderer!

    Perhaps MS should've run different lines on different stuff, a lead-free one for Europe and a lead one for the rest. Us lot in Europe would soon be up in arms about unreliable consoles, but at least the others would probably enjoy the same reliability as those who owned the original Xbox.
  • deantak · 1 year ago
    Umm. Interesting comments. Rest assured, Robert Delaware is not the only one I talked to for this story.
  • Colage · 1 year ago
    InformedPerson is right - you chose a side in the original article and then played it through. The fact of the matter is that Delaware isn't a bigwig or a person of influence or stature at Microsoft, he's a contract game tester. The janitor is probably a better source.

    But instead, both in the original article and this one, you praise his courage as though he ran into a burning building to save a baby. In my experience, game testers and CS/tech reps want to be important and recognized for working at a game company. Delaware knew what he was getting into, but he wanted you to use his name so people would know who he was. And the simple fact of the matter is that he's not a whistleblower - the problems with the Xbox 360 are well-documented, and Microsoft replaces consoles that are affected. If they were denying that there was a problem, then it would be a different ballgame, but they've owned up to it.

    In short, both this and the piece that preceded it was shoddy journalism at best. Hell, half of the article above this comment is devoted to self-congratulation. But at the end of the day, you didn't uncover anything new and you got a guy fired. Good work.
  • InformedPerson · 1 year ago
    Dean, the point is; this particular source is not credible, and you seem equally "wrong-headed" in a few significant ways.

    First... It seems like a blatant exaggeration to call Microsoft's reaction a witch hunt.

    I think their response to your article was reasonable. They've said as much as they want to about the Red Ring - fair or not. Do you really expect them to get into a public debate or discourse with your or anybody else about a collection of suggestions from anonymous or unreliable sources. Nobody would do that, and for anyone to suggest or imply that their lack of response lends credibility to your article or accusations, is not only unfair, but manipulative.

    Second... Delaware violated an NDA. He did so by participating in an article that makes some pretty serious claims against his employer. Microsoft fired him for it. No witch hunt here. In fact, this was enough of a predictable result that both you and he clearly discussed it beforehand. He got himself fired and you helped him do it.

    But again, you (and others) are gladly spinning Microsoft's response and turning it into something it's not. Firing Delaware also doesn't confirm any of your claims or your article. It doesn't even lend credibility to anything he said. It simply means he violated the guidelines of his employment, and its the kind of thing that warrants termination regardless of why he did it.

    So...

    Let's not pretend like we're bringing down the tobacco industry, and in the future, let's try to actually prove some of the things that are being said. Isn't evidence part of investigative journalism? Isn't that evidence usually included in the reporting? I just don't see any here. And Delaware is the kind of source that is so unreliable that he calls all of your other sources into question.

    Frankly, your article would have retained more credibility and intrigue if you'd have been as skeptical and myself and some of the other posters. Not only about Delaware, but many of the other sources and pieces of information in your article.

    But instead, you made a classic mistake in journalism and reporting - you picked a side. Unfortunately, the side you picked and the people/information you aligned yourself with are seriously questionable.

    Oh well.

    I loved your moderation of the round-table with Ed Fries, Bing Gordon, and Peter Moore. In the interests of balance, I'll at least compliment you for that. But not this.
  • tim miller · 1 year ago
    Not an over reaction and the way they are treating their loyal consumers is awful. I am on my fifth 360 console and have been with Xbox and Live since 1 month after Xbox 1 went LIVE. Each time my console get the three RROD I fight for hours on the phone (time if spent working would make me hundreds) to get a repair even though I purchased an extended warranty with thee original which lasted a whopping 92 days. They always say that doesn't cover the console they returned to me only the one I purchased which of course I'll never have back. Then they always try to pull "Well we don't cover repaired consoles" Like I had a choice; and you C96ks*%$ers fixed it in McAllen TX. Then to get them fixed I either have to file BBB complaints (3x's) or better to bring the KIRO 7 TV News to Redmond. Interestingly enough mentioining the news gets it done right away maybe because I live in the greater Seattle Area.

    Gotta Tell You been Treated So Crappy this time around that I have stopped buying games because of the way I have been treated AND

    I WON"T BUY MS POS CONSOLES EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!

    Think About That MS won't make $$ if their S*%T Don't Work and they can't treat their hardcore fans with a little respect. I have spent $thousands$ if not tens of thousands over the years they continue to treat me Like CRAP

    Sincerely

    Tim Miller
    KENT WA
  • Serial · 1 year ago
    True that violation of an NDA is obvious grounds for termination, but it should be equally important to note that when someone puts their livelihood on the line to become a whistle blower they automatically deserve a fair amount of credibility. And, lets be clear, while there is a lot of people who will report similar things anonymously, it takes a lot of guts to put your name and reputation on the line, people like this should be commended.

    Microsoft having an NDA to keep their employees quiet doesn't mean that they have to abide by it. It's simply a legal recourse Microsoft can use to terminate employment on people who hurt their bottom line without the employee having any legal recourse, even if it was the right thing to do.

    I'm sure Microsoft will sue him, it almost goes without saying given the size of their legal budget its almost obligatory but unless they can prove he did it out of malice I doubt he'll see any judgments against him. Its also worth noting that whether authorized to speak for the company or not, as an employee, anything he says publicly IS as a representative of the company, so unless hes not being truthful, everything he discloses should be considered the true position of Microsoft without the filter of a PR agent. Interesting stuff, glad I decided not to buy one.
  • Brian · 1 year ago
    I find it funny that you are so defensive. I hear you speak in terms of corporate realities. The game industry needs more guys like Delaware. Guys who do rant about the quality of the games and the console on which they are played. Maybe then there would be less "shippables",patching and RROD. I read on Peter Moore's EA blog about how "we aren't making games in garages anymore." Most of us unwashed gamers are well aware of how large and profitable the gaming industry has become. Be it hardware or software it's huge business. And we all know how complex the 360's hardware is. Truth is, the 360 had too many unproven components in it's design and has been a work in progress. I'm personally on my 2nd console, which is in the shop right now. To say that it is annoying is to put it mildly.

    Since you are "in the know" let me ask you to defend this. How many types of consumer electronics have such a short lifespan? Even with the first XBox the average lifespan of a console was roughly 2 1/2 years. Is my TV that fragile? My DVD player? My PC? No. If it were the case, I'd be at the BBB. Or to use the Darwinistic, I'm sorry, Capitalistic philosophy that seems to pervade your thought process, I'd buy someone else's product that was more reliable. Now I"m actually a fan of the 360, and defend it against the Sony boys. But facts are I have had my own quality issues with the console and they were not of my own negligence. I kept it in a cool room with plenty of ventilation, didn't have "all nighters" and babied it far better than any other electronics item I possess. But still it failed. In a relatively ridiculous amount of time.

    You act like we are idiots who don't understand the complexities, you sound like a crybaby. The expectation of every consumer is quality, durablity and value. 360 has failed in every one of those. Now I'd like to convey my latest experience with MS customer service. When I got my third RROD in 24 hours, so I called MS. The guy was really nice. He takes my console S/N and proceeds to tell me that my original 1 year warranty has expired. I'm thinking "it's 3 years!" So I'm conveying this to him and he segues into " It is 3 years now, because MS values your business, no cost to you...." Hold on, now you guys are doing me a favor? My stuff doesn't work after 26 months? Not computing.... So I'm like, "you're going to send me a box, right?" "Oh no, we now send you a lable from UPS and you send it in your own box." Cool, save's time. "How about I send it in my 360 box?" "No we don't want anyone to know that your sending in a defective console." His words, verbatim. Not we don't want it to get stolen.... "If you must send it in the box, paint it or cover it in paper." Why am I sharing all of this? Warranty aside, Microsoft isn't showing any remorse at it's faulty consoles causing consumers frustration, and it's not building any faith in the quality of it's product by continuing its' "cloak and dagger" secrecy. I agree with other posters here. Fix the issues. Give us a good console, give us good games that aren't more bug-filled than last gen. Patching is a good tool, but has become the norm to meet launch windows. Wall Street and shareholders aren't the ultimate arbitrator, consumers are. And I'm saying this, as much as I prefer the 360 and certain companies games, I can make other purchasing decisions. That's one thing that is cool about capitalism, normally the best at what they do get rewarded. It might have to be Sony fairly soon.....
  • SomeoneInformed · 1 year ago
    It's pointless to complain about the 360 (or any gaming system) not being as reliable, or even as relevant, as your TV or your DVD player. Quite simply put... your TV and your DVD player are a far cry from the engineering that goes into any of the consoles currently available. And if that reality bothers you, you can always choose not to buy a game system.

    I'm not saying that a broken 360 isn't a problem. It is. And in as much as any corporation will put their tail between their legs, admit they're wrong, and try to extend some compensation, Microsoft has probably given you as much as you'll ever see.

    Again, if you don't like that or if you don't feel they've done enough, you certainly have the choice of buying a PS3, a Wii, a PC even, or simply not gaming.

    But to sit here and get behind some bozo like Delaware, waving your fists alongside him because you think that consumers need a champion, is just silly. Delaware is ill informed. Just like this article. And your energies are better spent educating yourself and making a more solid case, if indeed you're so hell bent on indictments against Microsoft.

    Some people here are having a good old time suggesting that they were outright robbed by Microsoft, and that the company knew they were shipping faulty hardware.

    You'll never prove that and it's irrational to claim such when you can't prove it. You're better off saying you suspect, or that it seems possible, but all of this hardcore internet-branded righteous indignation is worth about as much as it costs to print this article, and less time than it takes to read it.

    Again, consoles that break (360 or otherwise) are not a good thing. No arguing that.

    But conspiracy is a breeding ground for misinformation, unsubstantiated "fact", mob mentality, sensationalism, and virtual religious euphoria. Everybody loves a good scandal. But Dean and many of you are trying too hard to create one, where it simply doesn't exist.

    At best, Microsoft tried and failed, and lots of 360s crapped out in the process. It's as boring as that.

    If you want a real hardware sales conspiracy, look at the Compaq Christmas debacle of (I believe it was 1997). They sold millions of PCs through Circuit City, Frys, and other major electronic retailers, including their own web site, that were supposed to be ready for Christmas. Well, people got their PCs in plenty of time to wrap them and stick them under the tree. Problem was... the PCs were literally missing mother boards, graphics cards, hard drives, etc. Several thousand of them were actually empty cases. Why did they do it? To cash in on Holiday spending, in hopes that they could deal with proper order fulfillment and customer returns AFTER the fact.

    That's right... sell it in, then fix it after the money is in the bank. Seems stupid, crazy, etc. But they did it. And people wonder how Dell got so big... the climate was RIPE for something marginally reliable.

    As for all your comments about buggy games, the need for quality, and gaming being big business... I think you need to learn up...

    More than any other segment of the entertainment industry, sales and retail performance on games are STRONGLY tied to quality, and in particular, review scores. Shitty movies can make a lot of money. Even Ishtar made money. But games don't enjoy the same marketplace. Meaning... it's the BEST games that make all of those big dollars you're talking about. The rest... maybe do okay. In most cases, they lose money.

    Be honest, you don't buy shitty games, do you? You wait for review scores on something you're uncertain about. Maybe you even rent it or borrow it from a friend first so you can try it out. But I'll bet that if you buy 20 games in a year, maybe 1 is a game you feel isn't good enough. And even that you can return (if you're smart), or trade in.

    So really... what are you whining about? Name a game that you think sucked, or was severely buggy, that sold at least 5 million copies this year.

    You can't. Because it doesn't happen.

    Know what's sold big this year? GTA4. Call of Duty 4. Mario Kart Wii. The list goes on and on... and they're all GREAT games.

    So quit your crying. You're the most spoiled consumer in the entertainment market.

    And there's nothing wrong with patching. If you've been a gamer for any length of time, you'd know that it's always been done. It's only you noob console gamers that think patching is bad or an indication of quality. Patching is simply the way of the business, and now that consoles are connected, they're reaping the BENEFIT. It certainly never hurt PC games.
  • Brian · 1 year ago
    Here's what I find more than slightly amusing to start off with. You on this site after you swore to never visit again. Now who has a credibility issue. Secondly, I never lashed out at you, but in return you have made it personal, even using profanity to cover for your lack of something meaningful to say in response. Now back to my original line of thought.

    You are deflecting criticism of Microsofts efforts in regard to this whole 360 fiasco, if I may be so bold as to call it that. You call the various claims unfounded and uninformed. But you offer no counter information to dispel the accusations. Instead you just offer smear and mudslinging. Are you truly as informed as you infer? Or are you also bound by a NDA? But I'm still at a loss as to how you can make excuses for the less than stellar quality of the console. You try prestidigitation to magically turn our eyes from the issue at hand by bringing up Compaq? At least the PC is something that you can't say isn't of the same level of complexity as the console. (thought I didn't notice that, did you?) Now let's get to apples to apples, shall we? The PS3, while having issues as well, is not even in the same time zone in the amount of failures and defects as the 360. Care to comment? Let's have some hard data to rebut that. Oh that's right. Microsoft didn't even acknowledge there was a problem for a year and a half. Omertia....

    You may resort to calling us names and vigorously defending Microsoft. But I'm really hoping that you don't work for them as you are doing the company a huge disservice. That company has it's own huge PR problem that it's based in Michael Moore conspiracy theories. It's based on huge negative feedback about the Vista launch and the 360 debacle. You sound like a certain politician who's doing his best to look senile and out of touch saying stupid things like "the economy is fundimentally sound!" For who? If I sound like I've veered off-course, let me bring it back. Here, in gamer land, the 360 is considered next to junk. We aren't really impressed with Microsoft's "kindness" at extending the warranty. And if you are really as informed as you claim, you should probably come down in the trenches and get some real feedback. I'll grant that the machine is improved, but until us "early adopters" who bought these crap machines get replacements that have the new, more reliable, hardware installed, we're gonna be very skeptical as to MS's true commitment to customer satisfaction. So please proceed with the hateful responses. I'm feeling maybe you're a nobody as well, just some fan of Bill Gates who has a poster on the wall and read business texts and cheers for the "holy" corporate way....
  • Brian · 1 year ago
    meant to say isn't based on Michael Moore conspiracies.
  • MP · 1 year ago
    It will be interesting to see what happens in the UK when these machines start falling (and failing) outside the 3 year warranty. Under the Sale Of Goods Act covering England and Wales goods must be "fit for purpose" for SIX YEARS from the date of purchase. Obviously you wouldn't expect consumables such as a light bulb or a battery to last 6 years, but when it comes to electronic goods, that's a different matter, and if proven to be due to a manufacturing defect there could be trouble. Apparently you've got to take it through the Small Claims Court, but when the media get their hands on it (RROD has featured on BBC's "Watchdog" programme in the past) watch out...
    The original Watchdog clip can be found at
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56-gQq62Hyc
  • Pascal Brulotte · 1 year ago
    Robert you deserve to be fired! How can someone talk agains his own employe's on the media like that. Yes Microsoft got it wrong with this problem but got it right with the consumer and the garanties! IM SUPER happy with my 360 and the Microsoft business model.
  • Rich · 1 year ago
    I keep my Xbox holed up in a air-tight, germ-free bubble and only take it on special occasions. So far I've almost finished level 1 of Call of Duty 2! Woo!
  • Jay · 1 year ago
    Why would anybody risk his or her job and incur legal action by being a whistle blower? Whats in it for them? It's far easier to shut-up and defend the giant than to take him on. It's easier to tell yourself that if it wasn't for the NDA I sighed I would do the right thing.
  • bindlewirdle · 1 year ago
    It's called "ethics".

    when some criminal executive steals your 401k, you'll be saying "why didn't someone blow the whistle on them"?

    thankfully there are people like Delaware - whose heart is in the right place even if his sense of timing and/or cloak of invisibility are not.
  • Kevin · 9 months ago
    Yeah I wouldn't want to work for a company that isn't in it for the consumers. XBox360 was realeased a bit early and if they kept it in a bit longer then they would have avoided the RROD altogether. Then Microsoft would have a reliable system on their hands which I would be more than happy to buy.

    I would have probably done the same as Delaware. He knew his job was on the line. It was the moral thing to do. If his job was to hunt down bugs, then they have to give them some time. It takes awhile to fix bugs and to track them down. From games freezing to the RRoD. I wonder if he knew the consumers were taking a chance on buying thx Xbox360? Too bad he didn't come forward sooner. :(
  • Chad · 1 year ago
    Hmm I never knew the RROD was that big of a problem. I can't imagine somebody going through 11 consoles. I got my 360 on launch day, played it just as much as anyone and I’ve never had a problem with it shutting down freezing up or doing anything I wouldn’t want it too.
    Glad to be one of the lucky ones I guess.
  • jay · 1 year ago
    I've had the orange ring or death as well, and even my new console makes me a bit nervouse when the fan starts to get too noisy.
    So here's an idea to help the world see how big a problem this really could be, if everyone took a photo of there broken XBOX 360's and the tagged them on google earth you would get a world view of the problem and then company's like MS wouldn't beable to hide behind red tape. I don't think these companies can't be trusted anymore to do the right thing by us so we should really start taking stronger actions against them. As for Robert I think he pretty much knew what he was doing or at least I hope he does NDA's are a pain. Good luck to you mate.
  • C lowe · 1 year ago
    Yeah Yeah I am tired of hearing about protocol and stuff like that, the thing is that I am sold a doorstop that was disguised as an xbox and that return policy is nothing more than a merry-go-around. that's why this will never end. I thought that when we had competition the consumer won. We were bamboozled and the funny thing is that no legal action is taken. Who fights for the consumer. It is a pity that I don't live or I would ensure that MS is taken to the wall. But credit to there marketing team they tell you that they are sorry for selling junk but continue to circulate the junk, does the new Elite have these probs, and if not ,when we return the junk give us the elite, it was no problem for us to shell out the money for the system, I think the only thing you should do is give me what I paid for. Cannot wait for Google to enter the console race
  • Jerome Cukier · 1 year ago
    I want to express my support to Robert Delaware. what he has done was the right thing to do. Microsoft, to be honest, spends a lot of resources and energy in Q&A and customer service. Yet things are not perfect. Your article eventually helps MS in becoming a better company. It also champions the cause of the many gamers with failed consoles. In an ideal world, MS should be grateful to your joint efforts. The amount of negative PR that a lawsuit could bring to MS should really deter them to proceed. In any case, I really wish the best to Robert.
  • Xenome · 1 year ago
    Warrior u made a wierd but true comment. i know this is off topic but i feel like i'm waiting for my ps2 to break down too. i just thought i might share that.
  • tenjor · 1 year ago
    eu acho que deveria ter um post em portugues... nao consigo entender nada desses comentario ridiculos.
  • Xenome · 1 year ago
    InformedPerson/SomeoneInformed/shitface u a bitch u probably ain't informed anyway
  • that guy · 10 months ago
    why is everyone so quick to take this dude's side? he signed a NDA, hes legally accountable for violating that. i mean, obviously this guy isn't rolling in cash for the lawyer fee's he's liable to collect, not to mention slandering his name for future job oppotunities, who cares? its like a healthcare employee coming out and saying "this company didnt pay all the claims it should have." no shit, its business..

    Secondly, for all of you who say Microsoft should pay the piper as well.. they are. they fix broken console for free, extended the warranty of their consoles and even replace EVERY component when they are repaired.

    If someone has gone through 11 consoles in a few years, then shouldn't the blame be placed on the user? When does it NOT become the manufactures problem? You think every Ford or GM or even Honda that rolls off the assembly line doesn't have bugs that the company knows about? They EVALUATE the risk.. The xbox manual says to place it in a well ventilated area and for christ sake, its more powerful than ANY consumer class computer you can buy in terms or raw power, just read the wiki on it.

    The ps3 is a nice.. uhm.. blu-ray player. its games suck. its online "network" sucks. if sony really cared about competing then perhaps they'd ditch their over used video game ideas and come up with some new ones.. that ATTRACTS new customers and not just diehard playstation followers...
  • AutomatedExpert · 7 months ago
    Hey ive had an xbox 360 for 3 years it works perfect and its on everyday. if you want to talk my live account is AutomatedExpert
  • Nintendo Wii · 6 months ago
    In my opinion, it is better for Microsoft to invest the money for research and find the better software than spending much time against the game tester.
  • Alex · 1 year ago
    Thank you DEAN TAKAHASHI! I placed the web link on my website. Let the whole World knows about it! Can i translate it into Russian?
  • Nick Stamoulis · 1 year ago
    @Johan

    Why is this a "ridiculous" article? What's so ridiculous about the article? VentureBeat is by no means saying "Microsoft shouldn't be doing this!!!" They are simply reporting the story of him being fired without even taking a side. Also "You don't get to do whatever you want and not expect consequences".. um, Delaware blantantly knew what he was risking. Again, he wasn't expecting to get away with murder so - your comment is ridiculous. :)
  • daizyujin · 1 year ago
    This is why we need legislation passed that protects "whistle blowers" of this kind from corporate scourge like this. Using a NDA to pull the cover over the consumer in this manner is pathetic. I don't care what the "law" says, saying that Microsoft's path in this situation was justified is crazy. Companies should be made to look at things from an ethics standpoint just as much as a legal one.
  • PiratePride · 1 year ago
    and pirates are the villains....right.
  • adsad · 1 year ago
    Ahhh capitalism at its best.
  • Red_Dawn · 1 year ago
    Dean there is another good nugget about the RROD and Xbox 360 failures that proves Microsoft was fully aware of the failures right up to launch.

    It can be found at www.gamasutra.com you will fine a developer post-mortem from Infinity Ward on Call of Duty 2 and the article describes their highs and lows of the process. One particular gem is that the Xbox 360 developer units were dying left, right and centre on them. It was a mad dash to get the game finished to the point were they had Microsoft engineers on site to help them.

    "Of the 50 Xbox 360 dev kits supplied to Infinity Ward early in the project, only about 20 of them are still useable, and he explained that more than half of the kits just died."

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2452/post...
  • InformedPerson · 1 year ago
    The same thing was true of he PS3 dev kits. And the PS2 dev kits. And the Xbox dev kits. And the PSP dev kits. When a console hasn't launched and hardware is still IN DEVELOPMENT, this kind of thing is common.

    In other words, there isn't much of a line to draw between their experiences making a 360 launch title and problems with the 360 at retail.
  • tim miller · 1 year ago
    To Mister Delaware I believe Federal Law protects whistle blowers from retaliation by their employer or their subsidiaries so you should easily win. Count yourself lucky as you have now been freed from the sinking ship.
  • Reflex · 1 year ago
    Had he reported this to the FTC and his claims been substantiated, then you would be correct. Instead he tried to make himself an internet hero. He has no protection, what he did was intentionally try to harm his employer with 'inside information' that he was never privy to in the first place.

    I doubt MS will bother sueing him. But if they did, he would fully deserve it. He's not a whistleblower, and to claim he is is a disservice to those who actually take such courageous stands.
  • pjbrunet · 1 year ago
    SomeoneInformed, are you serious?
  • Chris Szarek · 1 year ago
    I'm sure Delware knew the risks in talking. The guy wasn't stupid. Has anyone, besides Dean, noticed that this is how MS is responding to the story? They had every opportunity to talk with Dean for his articles and they chose to not respond. Now, a week later, here they are acting like this, taking whatever actions I'm sure they are entitled to, but still not going on the record with Dean or coming clean. Say what you will about the story or Dean or anyone involved, but the non-admittance of MS this late in the game is just embarrassing. Dean should be applauded for not letting the issues drop. Thats what makes him a good reporter.
  • Subtle_Demise · 1 year ago
    Microsoft is willfully selling known defective products to consumers and taking no steps whatsoever to resolve the issues, opting instead to spend their time and money to track down individuals who broke their precious non-disclosure agreements. Sure, the 3 year warranty is nice and all but it only covers ONE defect and it can sometimes take months to get a replacement console back (because finding a replacement at the company that actually invented it is immensely difficult). There are other defects that aren't as common as the RRoD, but are enough to be a nuisance. There have been a number of reports about failures with the disc drive. The first one, just plain failing to read discs is easily chalked up to worn components and what not and it's perfectly reasonable to charge money to replace the drive, but the console can also get stuck in "DVD-Playing mode" and won't allow you to play games when you place them in the 360. This is obviously a flaw in the design and craftsmanship of the product and consumers should not be charged for that or similar issues that are the fault of Microsoft.

    Now onto Mr. Delaware. First off, it's perfectly fine he got fired, no one wants an employee who can't honor a contract, however, it's more than likely they plan on destroying this man's life with their army of lawyers. But why are they doing this? If an almost 40% failure rate won't deter people from buying the console, nothing will (and the sales are still soaring after the recent price cuts). As evidenced by the influx of sales, Delaware's statements have had a marginal to zero impact on Microsoft's profits.

    I'll admit he should have thought about the consequences before signing the NDA (signing away your rights for any sum of money is a very bad move), but the fact is the Xbox 360 wasn't and still isn't fit for sale in its current state.

    Instead of outright denying the claims of these extra bugs he's mentioned, they are probably going to try to shut Delaware up by completely ruining him financially. This to me seems fishy and lends some merit to his claims. I'm just sick of corporations attacking individuals for revealing info that may have some tiny impact on their business, going so far as to bring people to court who voiced their opinion on the Internet, citing "libel" as their reason (when in fact in order to be considered slander or libel, the information has to be false, which in these cases, the information is almost always completely factual).
  • SomeoneInformed · 1 year ago
    You're dishonest.

    To say that Microsoft is willfully and knowingly selling defective products is just bullshit.

    Have you ever bought a computer? A PS3? Even a PS2? The nature of hardware, especially new and commercially innovative hardware is that it's fragile. I waited two years to buy a 360 because I was EXPECTING there to be bugs in the system. I still haven't bought a PS3. I did buy a PS2 at launch and not surprisingly it came with its share of headaches. But that's the beast, and its nature is well known.

    As for Delaware; I wish him well in his future endeavors. I'm sure that if I'm ever in Seattle, he'll either be selling me a burger or pouring my coffee. Some sort of menial work that doesn't require him to sign another NDA. But hey, let's not rule out the possibility of him getting a job at McDonalds, and going public with the sad state of Big Mac construction! Have you seen how sloppy those things are put together?? I demand quality! Help! McDonalds has knowingly sold me a shitty product! Help!

    Ha!

    I make myself laugh.
  • ashley · 1 year ago
    damn it f*ckin' Microsoft............won't buy 360 forever!
  • David Gerard · 1 year ago
    Yeah, firing the people who know what's wrong will definitely repair Microsoft's reputation and not make jokes like the image in this article - http://tinyurl.com/6mvcxn - immediately funny.

    Way to go Microsoft! We are enjoying your slow, majestic sinking and look forward to the final capsize.
  • Anderson · 1 year ago
    The story was read by many people in Brazil too, right from the www.portalxbox.com.br website. My wish of best luck for Delaware.
  • MarcFielding · 1 year ago
    I do agree that he violated his NDA but having owned 4 360's I think microsoft are very lucky that THEY are not facing legal action over their provision of what is frankly totally cr*p hardware, I have shelled out alot of money for my 360 and had I not got myself a warranty too I would be shelling out even more for another.

    All he is actually doing is informing consumers of what amounts to a cover up over the stability of the 360 so I whole heartedly support him.

    If they do prosecute him i'd like to gather up everyone that purchased a now buggered 360 and launch a lawsuit against microsoft.
  • Warrior · 1 year ago
    Great stories. Thanks for having the guts. I feel fortunate to have a 360 that has lasted a year. This is not right. I should not feel fortunate my console has not broken I should feel unfortunate when it does. Instead I feel like I am just waiting for the inevitable breakdown and ensuing costumer service headache and lost playing time only to get someone elses refurbished piece of crap. I must say that I still love my 360 though.
  • Zach · 1 year ago
    A lot of people are talking about Delaware having to face the consequences and that he knowingly made statements that would cost him his job. The fact is, that Microsoft also needs to face the consequences. After all, Microsoft produced a gaming console then rolled it out into production knowing that hardware problems existed and tried to get away with it. I've been lucky, and have only had to send mine back once, but I'm pretty sure the second is near. One could argue that Microsoft is trying to make up for the problems by extending the warranties and giving out free 1 month trials of Xbox Live to everyone who has to go through the weeks of waiting for their Xbox to come back broken again, but they are making it worse. Instead, they should re-call all consoles, fix the problem, then re-issue them to whomever turns theirs in during the re-call. I would also like to add that this whole Netfilx partnership with the Xbox Live subscibers may just be another awful attempt to sell Vista. If you don't have a Vista PC connected to your Xbox 360, you will not have Windows Media Center(only available on Vista now) available and therefore probably won't be able to interface the Netflix movie list. Microsoft hasn't changed since the beginning, and even after Bill Gate's leaving, they are still money hungry and as corrupt as they always have been. Sue me for that, cause we all know that you probably can.
  • David Gerard · 1 year ago
    Yeah, that'll definitely save their reputation and stop jokes like this being instantly comprehensible: http://notnews.today.com/2008/09/04/microsoft-d...