VentureBeat - Latest Comments in The downfall of female role models

Re: The downfall of female role models

Natassia Malthe — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:13:13 -0000

Hey!...I Googled for marketing mix models, but found your page about The downfall of female role models...and have to say thanks. nice read.

Re: The downfall of female role models

davemc500hats — Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:33:03 -0000

shelley: i am surely not suggesting this is a problem for women only to solve. that said, i'm a big believer in "The Lord Helps Those Who Help Themselves".

rather than simply observing there's a problem or carp about "society" having to do something, i'd propose more specific ways to address the situation.

given the choice of solutions proposed "gold star day" for women (yours), or the option to create more programs for science, math, & athletics for females at the primary & secondary school level (mine)... somehowe i think mine might be a little more effective.

Title IX is a much more constructive longitudinal approach to addressing these issues than waiting for "society" or someone else to solve the problem. cheers to Patsy Mink.

Re: The downfall of female role models

Shelley Powers — Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:45:52 -0000

Dave, what is my solution? I don't know Dave: perhaps we can have a 'gold star for women' day, where we women get to have a chance to be treated with equal worth. We'll start once a year, and when people have adjusted to this, we'll go once a week.

There is no pop solution that is going to make something that's a product of generations 'go away'. But the concept of role models assumes the problem resides with the women, and we need to point out, again and again, that the problem resides with society.

Patrick, please do not use the term cat fighting. I can't account for your job, but I've been on many with women and have gotten along well with the women as with the men. I would say there's a chance your department's culture could have encouraged this behavior.

As for what Angie is saying, there have been several organizations associated with women in tech (and in the sciences and so on) where women work to help and encourage other women. Unfortunately, we're not seeing success because again, the assumption is that women have to make change (ie help each other), when the problem resides with society.

Re: The downfall of female role models

Thomas — Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:11:24 -0000

Google has specific recruiters dedicated to finding and proactively recruiting female engineers.
So, will the next trend be Sex Changes for Male Internet Engineers?

Re: The downfall of female role models

Joyce Park — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 15:13:13 -0000

Hey guys, just thought I'd circle back around to mention that NPR's Science Friday was going to be talking about that women in academic science/technology report today (and via podcast):

http://www.sciencefriday.co...

Re: The downfall of female role models

davemc500hats — Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:46:05 -0000

>>What needs to change is womenâ€™s contributions need to be treated fairly and equally.

Shelley: how do you propose to make this happen?

people shouldn't be poor or ugly either, but nothing changes until you either 1) give money, or 2) do something.

what's your solution?

Re: The downfall of female role models

Startups.in/India — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:52:13 -0000

Sorry to say this but do one or two bad apples represent the entire working class-women in corporate world? IMO, the title for the post is not apt.

Re: The downfall of female role models

Lynne Jolitz — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:29:46 -0000

Kids, this isn't a recent problem where the 20-somethings aren't ready yet. You can live and die working towards change, as Anita Borg did
("Paving the Way for Systers", 9/15/03, SF Chronicle). http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...

Of course, the way the business press treats older women (and more recently older men), I'd be astonished if anyone knew there were women in technology before 1990 and that some of us are still going strong.

The drop out rate in the tech area for very well qualified women line managers is very significant as this article notes. Now I'm seeing the same for very well qualified men as well. We've got a real problem in our industry.

Of course, as Patrick notes, he can get his young male gang together to agree that being male is defacto "more qualified", with the implication that a young woman should like it or lump it. After all, where's her gang to fight back?

It's hard to fight prejudice, no matter how many patents, companies, or credentials you may get if you are perceived as inferior for what you are - not what you do.

Lynne Jolitz
Chief Technology Officer
ExecProducer / CoolClip Network

Re: The downfall of female role models

Patrick — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:48:57 -0000

Shelley...

You can pry my job, my money, and jobs and money of my more qualified male friends from my cold, dead and young hands...

Re: The downfall of female role models

Shelley Powers — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:45:03 -0000

Dave McClure, you need to read this.

Even with women entering science and engineering, our contributions are not treated equally. Role models have nothing to do with this -- that's putting the burden on women to make change.

What needs to change is women's contributions need to be treated fairly and equally. Then more women will be interested in the fields, and hence become role models.

All the role models in the world won't effect change.

Re: The downfall of female role models

Shelley Powers — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:41:53 -0000

Angie, there is no such thing as 'cat fighting'. There's just people who are exchanging acrimonious debate, regardless of sex.

We have to first separate out the behavior associated assumptions as regards men and women, including eliminating 'cat fight' from our vocabulary (unless you literally mean, cats fighting).

As for helping one another, I don't necessarily see this when men greet each other. About the only time I see this is when men are currying favor from each other. I suppose we should learn to emulate this behavior, but it seems tacky to me.

As for genuinely helping each other, I agree. I think we need to stop thinking of ourselves and do things that help others, even without benefit for ourselves.

Women used to do this, but I don't see it as often now, and I rarely see it in the tech profession now. That's disappointing.

Re: The downfall of female role models

davemc500hats — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 04:01:16 -0000

problem: not enough female role models / leader stereotypes in tech & business.

solution: teach girls math & science, have them play sports, wait 40 years.

we've been working on it for about 20-30 years, but the cohorts probably aren't quite old enough yet... however if you look at the change in just the past 10 years in Fortune 500 CEOs and the Senate and the House, the change is quite noticeable. nowhere near parity yet, but dramatically improved from two decades back.

i was raised by a single mother who was a business owner & entrepreneur. she overcame... pretty darn sure joyce will too. (and if i have a damn thing to say about it, so will my daughter; due in january :)

joyce: you & mary hodder better kick ass. my kid's gonna need someone to look up to... don't you dare disappoint her!

- dave mcclure
http://500hats.typepad.com/

Re: The downfall of female role models

Angie — Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:58:45 -0000

I agree with you Shelley except that also as Charles B said - you're thrust into the limelight, you should take your obligation seriously while enjoying the perks (power?) that goes along for the ride.

Maybe it's because we're indoctrinated to finding women as being nuturing and supportive (leaving out the b*tchy cat fighting) that it's more shocking to find women doing "evil" things vs. men doing such things; men who are often viewed as more cut-throat.

But I'll tell you, when I see men interact I see two things happen on a very regular basis - they ask each other what they do (and if they even superficially like each other) they ask how they can help each other.

Women too often are not helpful towards other women. There is more jealousy and guarded behavior or searching for ulterior motives. I think if women could understand this and could view fewer things as competition more women could open more doors for other women. I don't necessarily mean creating an "old girls' network" but rather enjoying competition for what it's worth (inducing better, sharper behavior) and help each other out. I see far too little of this.

Re: The downfall of female role models

Shelley Powers — Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:51:18 -0000

I would say you need to cast your eyes somewhere other than the headline stories.

eBay is led by a woman, as is Lucent, and Xerox. There are other companies, in California and elsewhere, and in tech, communications, chemistry, manufacturing, and so on.

HP has problems and there have been men contributing to these problems as well as women. To me, this is an HP problem, not a 'woman' problem.

As for being 'derailed' by parenthood, illness, and burnout, what does this have to do with your original premise of role models and women who have made mistakes in important positions?

There's plenty of women who have led. It's up to you young'uns to decide if you have what it takes to follow.